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Inside a Maximized Living office (by a CA) - (Read 15,515 Times)
 
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specter
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Apr 15, 2007 at 7:25pm QuotePost Options Post by specter on Apr 15, 2007 at 7:25pm
I work for a Maximized Living Doctor.

Understandably, not everyone in the program runs their office like we do. But we're there nonetheless.

He's a bit of a rant on the inner office bs that goes on with them.

Its a very sneaky organization that hides its ulterior motives by covering them up under total health packages...They say several logical things related to general health and then smother it with religious dogma and misrepresentation's of stats...it clearly confuses our patients...We see probably 2 times as many people as we're staffed to deal with...hence the board complaints we've been getting.

The Lead Doc explains it like this...Wouldn't you scare some one to going to church if you knew they were going to hell, even if some of what you said wasn't completely true?

I've gone to the seminars, and absolutely hate it. There's another one in May!!! (They're mandatory by the way for my office)
I've started looking for facts to back up the bs in the office that we spread everyday. (which is how i found this site)

If you happen to be there...keep in mind I'm there as well, watching and listening in disbelief as I hope you are.

The seminars are an Absolute waste of time and money...just a giant parade of rich DC's who've all "Made it" to 1000+ patients a week, mixed in with some philosophy on Chiro with the beloved "Green Books", and testimonies. (on a side note, one of the first parts of the seminar we were told...don't ask questions, just do it, do what we say, like we say it...if you don't, you're not right with either God or chiropractic...followed by eruptions of applause) My personal favorite part is script rehearsals... Where they make everyone practice over emphasizing the "literature" and reinforcing the urgency of the fear tactics. I can't let myself forget the anti medicine message that are mentioned constantly.

Gotta love stories of DC's yammering on about telling patients to take their patients out of a hospital for serious infections...then driving to their house at 3 in the morning for the much needed adjustment...3 times a day for several days why the patients in a fever induced stupor...hospitals threatening to send him to jail....etc...and she's all better...massive infection was fought off by the power inside, the leg didn't need to be operated on...an now they're both regular patients. If you were in Orlando in Feb...you know what I'm talking about

Every single person that walks in our office gets the same song and dance, same beginning treatments etc...the more I'm in the office the more frustrating it is to hear all of this crap. I swear we're a few degrees away from having an in office revival.

I hate, absolutely hate the prepay bs. Most of the doc's are being coached to use "Care Credit" to help their patients afford their bills which all seem to end up around 3k....per person...We do however offer discounts if you get more family members to sign up....then we schedule 3 visits a week....call and harass people when they miss appointments and threaten to drop them from care if they don't keep their schedules...which is great when patients miss appointments because they cant afford the gas to drive to the freaking office...but they're at least trying...

While we do help some people...those whom are seriously messed up, the remaining majority of them came in with no symptoms from walmart screenings etc, and still don't have any...(Clear cases of success). Although many with low back pain are only getting neck traction and the "flying 7" adjustments as the doc's call them. Considering that our evening doc is doing 30-50 adjustments in the last 15 minutes that we're open, the flying label at least makes some sense.

Allegedly if you ever achieve the optimal 42 degree curve, 31 degree atlas and 0 FHP we'll work on you lower back. Which I've found we aren't real consistent on the film posture and make people stand up super straight which stretches the curve out...so out of around 400 active patients there's less than 40 that have achieved the numbers...at which point we schedule less visits...some have been coming for over 3 years and their numbers are relatively the same... we re-xray every 90 days and the numbers swing so erratically...I've had x-rays taken on myself to test this and I've gotten curve swings of over 20 degrees based on how straight i try to stand on xrays 30 minutes apart...lets see an adjustment do that!... So most patients get trapped here....reminds me of salmon swimming up a stream full of bears.

Some do get better, but the fact that the "Doctors Report" still uses 80% of his testimonies from several years ago...tells you how great we're doing. This doctors report is almost 3 hours long...maybe a 3rd of which has anything to do with chiropractic...the rest is just medicine bashing and Praising God...

The straw that broke the camels back...we had a female come in, obviously in pain. We took our "lucky you free x-rays" on her and scheduled her for a Doc's Report...but her husband wouldn't come...so we refused to treat her. On claims that she couldn't get better with out him understanding what the office is all about. The last strand of dignity i had for this place was lost on that moment. It happens all the time...and we all know the only reason they "had" to have him there was another possible $2k (family discount of second member!) for his year of care...

I've got to stop or my heads going to explode from the landslide of bs i want to put on this page.

Right now I'm wolf in sheep's clothing, really only motivated to help bring down the scam and try to protect those that I can and keep whats under my control on the up & up while I'm looking for another job.



If any of you have question as to the inner working and hypocrisies of this place feel free to post your reply questions and I'll get back to you as soon as i can.



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Apr 15, 2007 at 8:58pm QuotePost Options Post by Guest on Apr 15, 2007 at 8:58pm
Specter,

Thank you for the information- its important to us.....but I am concerned about you! If the Feds nail these guys you could be in some very hot water as well....They go after everybody in the office! I would contact the Florida state board.....no, scratch that because they're chiropractors too- they might be like Hideg....contact the Fla. Attorney General's office.

An go easy on the X-rays!


Stay in touch,

KN
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Apr 15, 2007 at 10:11pm QuotePost Options Post by specter on Apr 15, 2007 at 10:11pm
Well, we're in middle America...so i'm not quite sure Florida is who i need to be worrying about. Smiley
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Apr 17, 2007 at 7:55pm QuotePost Options Post by Marley on Apr 17, 2007 at 7:55pm
Specter,

Thank you so much for joining our forum! We appreciate you taking the time to spread awareness about Maximized living.

If you wouldn't mind we have already started a thread here
chirotalk.proboards3.com/index.cgi?board=cult&action=display&n=1&thread=3009&page=1

It is best to keep posts in one thread- it works better for google searches.

If you read through the thread you will see that I was wrapped up in Maximized Living after I graduated from chiro school. Maximized living is bad news...
Last Edit: Apr 17, 2007 at 7:56pm by Marley
Tyler Durden: You are not special. You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake. You're the same decaying organic matter as everything else.

"You may fool all the people some of the time; you can even fool some of the people all the time; but you cant fool all of the people all the time." -Abraham Lincoln

The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
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Apr 18, 2009 at 4:51pm QuotePost Options Post by spinehealer02 on Apr 18, 2009 at 4:51pm
Marley, I found these articles online. It sounds like the same thing that is happening to these doctors is also happening to these dentists. Thie outcome is the same - get out of the cult while you still can! I know it may be tough, but you're losing your sole and in fact dishonoring God by worshing the cult leader guy instead of the needs of the patient!

sayhitocraig.blogspot.com/2009/04/cult-like-business-practices.html

forum.rickross.com/read.php?3,70547
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Mar 15, 2010 at 1:31pm QuotePost Options Post by jerlit on Mar 15, 2010 at 1:31pm
I am here in the max office now. I have been searching for any1 who might have the same suspicions as I do. Finally!!!!! The word is out! They are greedy greedy money scammers! I do not get paid enough, nor do I get vacation, insurance, or holiday pay. Then I practice scripts or should I say, theater role playing where I need to act on que with all the right emphasis and facial expressions. This includes sayings like: "Wow, we see so many miracles in our office and we know youll experience them too!" I hate the daily harassment calls that I am required to make to patients. They hate them too! My dr/boss seems to feel he is god. Every morning we listen to how he knows all the tactics in manipulating people and we can be special and successful too if we learn these tactics. Maybe he feels guilty for following this path and wants to bring someone down with him. Next we say a prayer. The funny part is that I am religious but I do not pray with him. Instead I keep my eyes open praying that God will strike him for ripping off patients and me. He lies to all patients and worst of all he lies to himself convincing himself that he really does help people. Yet, all the people he helps end up leaving. Y is that?! Well they only leave for a short time until we script them back in the office because if they dont come back we will harass them for life. At least that is what the cult seems to be about. Maximized Cult!
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Mar 15, 2010 at 4:11pm QuotePost Options Post by qmagnumq on Mar 15, 2010 at 4:11pm
Thank you for posting. The more information that is out there about these scammers, the better!

My wife is convinced that HER Maximized Living DC is God (god?) anyways. Nothing I say to her has any merit in her mind.

"MD's and pharma are crooks - ML is the way to go"

I have tried to tell her it is all scripted and everyone gets the same treatment, but she doesn't care. She knows I read this forum and others and tells me that all the "mis-information" I am reading on the internet is put out by the drug companies...as they don't want alternative medicine to succeed Smiley
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Mar 21, 2010 at 4:05pm QuotePost Options Post by bloggerdr on Mar 21, 2010 at 4:05pm
I'm not a maxliving doc. I have worked in two maxliving offices and now have my own office where I use some of the procedures I learned in maxliving. Coaching groups are for guidance and some take it too far. But who can not agree that our medical community takes the practice of medicine too far as well. I worked for the drug companies and medical device companies for three years. Try sitting through a surgery where MDs make fun of the patient getting the surgery....or the nurse that says "let's make Mr. Jones wait for his meal" since he has been bad today....Or the training you get in the Corporate office to "manipulate" the docs on the drugs being used in his/her office. Trips, kickbacks, huge dinners.....etc...Life is a sale...Let's talk about the billions that drug companies make off YOUR health insecurities....Do you really think that the doc that gives you a drug is 100 percent sure!!? Heck no...You are all on here to sell your opinion. I can say that there are some maxliving docs that take it too far but look at any other business in any other profession.... I have helped MANY with problems that they have had for years. There is no way around it....It happens. I just can't believe you are grouping some great people out there really trying to help people.
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Mar 22, 2010 at 12:10am QuotePost Options Post by Copernicus DC on Mar 22, 2010 at 12:10am
blogger,
We like to point out fallacies here so I see that you are making the fallacies that two wrongs make a right, and a red herring by comparing unethical actions by individuals to an unethical system taught by a practice management organization. They are totally different issues.

Frankly I bet that these dcs all have good intentions, unfortunately they must be held accountable regardless.
Last Edit: Mar 22, 2010 at 11:23am by Copernicus DC
"The real problem (isn't chiropractic but rather) society's tolerance of disproven theory, unsubstantiated claims and unethical professions."

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Mar 22, 2010 at 8:38am QuotePost Options Post by qmagnumq on Mar 22, 2010 at 8:38am
I hear a lot of that around my house Allen! "MD's and drug companies are evil...therefore....DC's and Maximized Living are good."

I have tried to use this very analogy on my wife. Just because one group is doing something wrong, doesn't automatically make another group right.
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Jun 11, 2011 at 9:51pm QuotePost Options Post by abusedca on Jun 11, 2011 at 9:51pm
Hello everyone,
I have been searching online for info on chiropractic cults and stumbled upon your forums. I am a CA who is now unemployed due to issues and abusive behaviours towards me and practice members that I witnessed. We are in Canada, and I can tell you the things that were happening in my office are not far off from what im reading about Maximized Living and other groups in the United States.
When I first applied for the job, the dr's were wonderful, kind, but boy was I ever wrong. They seemed all sweet on the outside when they wanted to impress or keep me or their patients, but they were truly aweful people when the doors were closed. I was coming from a nursing background and thought I'de try out chiropractic. Unfortunatly for me, these dr's were only out to take advantage of me. I was hired on an hourly rate, and I handed in my hrs on weekly basis because I was consistantly working approx. 10hrs over my 33hr/week schedule (upon the drs request). Turns out they didnt like that very much because they quickly realised that although they were only paying me minimum wage, that was too much. So they put me on a salary wage without my consent (my weekly pay was now cut in half) and when I asked them about it, they became upset and angry, and told me that it is what it is and that I should be ashamed of questioning them and asking for more money. I will get paid a set amount regardless of the hrs that I worked. PERIOD!
You have to understand that at this point, 50% of their staff had quit within 3months of my employment because of the environment and I was now running the office along side a part time coworker.
I was forced to attend weekend cultic training seminars (unpaid of course) where we were all told that anyone who is not recieving chiropractic care is dying, and that we are killing them by not making them start treatment. We were required to rehearse and memorise scripts as well as the drs. who would say the same script to every one of their patients on the night of their report of findings. Every patient, no matter their xray, age or situation, were told that what the 'doctor' had discovered was 'serious' and that they required immediate care that would require a 12month plan and payment upfront.
In the time that I worked there (just under a year) I was being consistantly harrassed, verbally abused, the drs were very controling of what I did outside of work, how much I slept, enforced what I can and cannot eat and was consistantly badgered because I drank coffee. Whenever I tried to defend myself in any confrontational circumstance, I was told that I was weak, that in fact they were not hard enough on me, that I had issues with authority and that is why I did not want to obey them. One day I was told to never give my input again because I will always be wrong, the dr is always right (this was a discussion not related to chiropractic what so ever). He was quite serious. His anger would sometimes get violent, and thats when you knew to just shut up and take it - there were times I thought I was going to get hit. I was always being told that by not bringing in at least 4new patients a day that I was assisting in killing ppl out there that need help. I was never bringing in enough money, etc etc. I would have quit within the first month had it not been for my financial situation in which I was the primary support for my parents and siblings.
Before long I was all alone, all other employee's had quit due to the environment. (They have a very bad turn over rate, the longest CA that has ever worked there was about 16months)
So here I am bringing in approx. $20,000/per week for this practice. We dont deal with insurance companies either, so any care that the patient was recieving was being payed out of pocket.

I could go into greater detail about the abuse, and the day I was attacked by the dr, which caused me to resign, but I do fear of being saught out even thought I no longer work there. I have sustained so much trauma from that experience I have been unable to get work since, I fear being put into that position again. I will never again work for a Chiropractor.
I know that there are many coaching groups out there for chiros but have any of you heard of "Warrior"? These dr's were a part of this group, I believe they were to pay an annual fee of approx. $14,000 to be trained on this baloney. I do understand that chiropractic is helpful and I know many people who have benefit from it, but nobody is going to drop dead before my very eyes if they do not recieve care immediately. 80+ visits/year is the average at this centre, and it seems a bit exessive. If the customer misses their appt, calls have to be made within 15min of the appointment time (by me) to harrass and reschedule, and if the patient does not wish to reschedule, you do it anyways and reschedule it for them. "It's for their own good. Good patients are trained, and this is how we train them." was what the drs would tell me. I'm sorry, but I train my pets, not vulnerable people who need help and trust that they will get it from the guy whos promising it. These people learn to trust the dr because they're sweet and they demand respect from everyone. They enforce that as drs (chiropractors) they are to be respected and be viewed as primary health care providers above all others (because western medicine is the devil) and I am to treat them like gods because thats what they are. The begining of every shift, the dr's would walk me through the day and what was scheduled, along with a little "inspiration" that only demanded more praise to the dr from me. We would sometimes do a prayer, and I must say, I am a Christian and had no problem with the prayer, but the text of their prayer was going out to nobody but their own self. In their eyes, they were gods who were healing people, result of brainwashing they recived from their training group. They're just people with huge ego's and it needs to be flattered daily from me, thats apparantly another one of my many job descriptions.

Anyways, thanks for letting me vent. I am not a distressed employee whos trying to get revenge -I'm just glad I was able to voice some of this stuff, I thought I was all alone. I hope that this might help someone who was like me, feeling stuck without a way out. Quiting was the best thing I did for myself.
Thanks,
abusedCA
Last Edit: Jun 11, 2011 at 9:59pm by abusedca
synaptic
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Jun 12, 2011 at 12:28am QuotePost Options Post by synaptic on Jun 12, 2011 at 12:28am
Thank you for sharing. I feel very fortunate to have worked in chiropractic clinics that were nowhere near as extreme as the one you describe, although I certainly know of some practice management groups who teach chiropractors to run their offices like this.

In school, I had a Pettibon instructor who told our class how he hires receptionists... he has several job applicants attend a meeting in his office, where he teaches them about chiropractic. The applicant who expresses the most interest in chiropractic and seems the most likely to help build the practice gets the job. That sounds reasonable, right? I was shocked, however, when he went on to explain that he had to fire his last receptionist because she wasn't bringing enough patients into the practice!

By the way, a patient visit average of 80 is indeed excessive. There is no reason a patient should have to get adjusted that many times in a year.... that works out to be 1.5 visits a week over the course of 52 weeks! Most people would be out of pain within a month. What really surprises me is that all these patients are willing to pay for this much care. Of course, after a while their joints will become so hypermobile that their adjustments won't hold very long, so they will feel like they need to get adjusted all the time.
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Jun 13, 2011 at 11:02pm QuotePost Options Post by docm on Jun 13, 2011 at 11:02pm
@abusedca: keep us updated on your situation and vent all you want here.
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Jun 14, 2011 at 1:04am QuotePost Options Post by synaptic on Jun 14, 2011 at 1:04am
Today I was just thinking again about this 80 visits per year thing. It's funny how chiropractors often like to share fantastic stories about how powerful and amazing the chiropractic adjustment can be, and yet, when reality sets in, the chiropractic adjustment doesn't seem all that amazing. To illustrate, when I went through chiropractic college, it seemed like all of the stories and testimonials I heard about chiropractic adjustments went something like this:

"I had [some. horrible problem] for years and the medical doctors just ran a bunch of tests and threw a bunch of pills at me that caused terrible side effects and I never got better. In fact, I only got worse. Finally, in desperation I went to a chiropractor who was recommended by a friend of mine, and after only one adjustment I began to feel better. By the second or third visit, my [horrible. problem] was completely gone!" -- satisfied patient

So what does this all come down to?

To miraculously fix a chronic and perplexing medical illness, up to three visits may be required.
To maintain health in someone who is generally healthy, 80+ visits per year are required for life.
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Jun 14, 2011 at 8:12pm QuotePost Options Post by aimhye on Jun 14, 2011 at 8:12pm
I know there are a lot of practice management groups, but has anyone heard of health source clinics and what is your opinion about them. I found some posts on a complaint website, but most of the information was just that, complaining without real substance.
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left Chirotown to go into IT. No regrets.

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Jun 14, 2011 at 10:36pm QuotePost Options Post by drbacon on Jun 14, 2011 at 10:36pm
HealthSource likes to tout personalized rehab combined with chiro manip. They are probably one of the biggest (if not the biggest) chiro franchise out there. They are not a practice management group, per se, but they do want their franchisee's doing things exactly as they are told (like any franchise).

While it seems that they are trying to go in the right direction, moving patients to active care, they still tend to want to x-ray every new patient, scare people into long term care (I do not think they push pre-paid contracts, however), and perform the same "Low Back" rehab regimen on everyone with LBP. It's basically the same old routine in a shiny new package.

In all fairness I have not worked at one of these clinics and have only heard reports from others.
Last Edit: Jun 14, 2011 at 10:37pm by drbacon
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Jun 14, 2011 at 10:43pm QuotePost Options Post by orthican on Jun 14, 2011 at 10:43pm
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Jun 14, 2011 at 1:04am synaptic said:
Today I was just thinking again about this 80 visits per year thing. It's funny how chiropractors often like to share fantastic stories about how powerful and amazing the chiropractic adjustment can be, and yet, when reality sets in, the chiropractic adjustment doesn't seem all that amazing. To illustrate, when I went through chiropractic college, it seemed like all of the stories and testimonials I heard about chiropractic adjustments went something like this:

"I had [some. horrible problem] for years and the medical doctors just ran a bunch of tests and threw a bunch of pills at me that caused terrible side effects and I never got better. In fact, I only got worse. Finally, in desperation I went to a chiropractor who was recommended by a friend of mine, and after only one adjustment I began to feel better. By the second or third visit, my [horrible. problem] was completely gone!" -- satisfied patient

So what does this all come down to?

To miraculously fix a chronic and perplexing medical illness, up to three visits may be required.
To maintain health in someone who is generally healthy, 80+ visits per year are required for life.


The nail hit on the head. And just whom do they think they are fooling here?...... Some of the people some of the time...sure..and if that is all one cares about then that will suffice to allow them to sleep at night. It all boils down to asking what brings one back to work each day. ......

Too little in this world there is regard for the true well bieng of your niehbor....Too much taking and far too little giving...


sad really...
Wait a minute...pain is irrelevantSmiley

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Jun 15, 2011 at 2:26pm QuotePost Options Post by abusedca on Jun 15, 2011 at 2:26pm
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Jun 13, 2011 at 11:02pm docm said:
@abusedca: keep us updated on your situation and vent all you want here.


Thanks docm, means a lot Smiley

The 80adj/year I was referring to is when the pt is put onto a correction plan, after their 12months is up, they go down to a wellness care plan and the number of adjustments drop anywhere between 52-26adj/year. Even still, its a lot considering that these patients are being instructed that they need this for the rest of their lives.

Over the course of my employment at this office, I became friends with many of the patients that were getting care here. I never spoke badly of the doctors to any of their patients, I wanted to maintain that professional dr/patient relationship. Until I quit and they started to email me enquiring about my absence. When I told them what had happened, I was shocked to discover that many patients have had similar issues with these doctors as I have. Many have been disrespected, spoken to very harshly, scared into having their young infants and children start care, as well as have the dr threaten that he will drop them as patients if they do not comply with everything the dr instructs them to do during their care.

I have not pressed any charges or saught legal action with anything that has happened to me, I'm not sure I want to go that far. However, these dr's actions have proven to be unethical, possibly illegal and simply dangerous! I would like to make a formal complaint to the CCO (College of Chiropractors Ontario), if any Ontarian DC has any advice as to how to go about this, whether or not I have enough to bring this guy down. My personal opinion is that he should not be allowed to practice, but I know the CCO is there to protect their own, he may only get a slap on the wrist.

What should I do?

Yours,
abusedCA
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Jun 15, 2011 at 2:29pm QuotePost Options Post by abusedca on Jun 15, 2011 at 2:29pm
I thought I'de also mention that I've seen patients on a +100adj/year care plan. Is this even allowed?!
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Aug 2, 2011 at 11:40pm QuotePost Options Post by godsgopher on Aug 2, 2011 at 11:40pm
Well I'm making the rounds around the forum regarding the Maximized Care practices. I confess my shock continues to grow. An aspect I keep seeing mentioned is the god angle. I had a little experience with this during the dinner I attended, and the first office visit as well as the Doctors talk. The Dr. didn't lay it on very thick but something about it struck me as hallow every time I heard it.

See, I'm what many an atheist would call a firm Southern Baptist Fanatic, and that's probably not a bad description really. But then again if you can't be fanatical about what you believe I have to wonder do you really believe it? The bottom line here is I can usually spot who's passionate about their beliefs and who's mouthing the words. My initial reaction, my first impression was the "Doc" was mouthing a line, hollow, without depth, empty.

Now thats just a quick impression, I would want to sit down and ask "What does Christ mean to you" to really get a feel for their spiritual bone structure. Smiley

EDIT: Specter, I wish to thank you for your honest opinion and for everything you have shared here. Its not easy to bite the hand that feeds you so to speak. I dare say it takes a good bit of integrity.
Last Edit: Aug 2, 2011 at 11:42pm by godsgopher
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Aug 12, 2011 at 2:49pm QuotePost Options Post by madamca on Aug 12, 2011 at 2:49pm
I love hearing all about this! Funny story, about a year and a half into our private small town Utah cash practice I went to visit my family in Texas who all raved about their chiropractor. I even went with my sister in law to him and their office was Maximized living! It was so busy I perspired jealousy and took notes. I even put a call into their franchise or whatever they are and they never called back. We closed down about a year later but I always wonder how it would have done in rural BYU Utah county!!!
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Sep 7, 2011 at 10:33pm QuotePost Options Post by mapjtx on Sep 7, 2011 at 10:33pm
I am so happy I found this forum! my mother and sister have been sucked in by a maximized living doc here in san antonio named dr clayton hansen. my mother has never in her life complained of neck problems and now that this "god" of a chiropractor dr hansen is in her life, he's convinced her she has neck problems and needs to go to him 3 times a week. he also told her that the stress of her job was going to eventually destroy her so she is now leaving her 120K+ job a year. She paid for 92 sessions. in the past month, my mother has mailed my husband and I literature for maximized living twice and came over to give "face to face testimony"

my sister suffers from random rash breakouts and had a staph infection last week so my mom convinced her to go to the miracle worker hansen. he told her he could help her (how i don't know) then said her husband had to come in for a meeting. my brother in law told my husband about this meeting. what a crock of s*&$. HERE'S THE KICKER- THEY TRIED TO GET MY BROTHER IN LAW TO SIGN UP FOR 92 SESSIONS EVEN THOUGH NOTHING IS WRONG WITH HIM! If I have to go there myself and tell them to leave my family alone, I will.
i asked my chiropractor about maximized living and he gave me the "those people are intense" look. sure he appreciates the amount of money they make, but to elude to people that medicine is bad and that the right "healing hands" can cure all ailments including cancer and heart disease is preposterous.

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Sep 8, 2011 at 6:50am QuotePost Options Post by Copernicus DC on Sep 8, 2011 at 6:50am
Sorry to hear of your relative's troubles. Stress will lower immunity, perhaps she could use some relaxation training.

Trying to sell a big unnecessary care package is par for the course with ML. I hope she is receptive to contradictory information so she doesn't fall for their pitch.
Last Edit: Sep 8, 2011 at 8:12am by Copernicus DC
"The real problem (isn't chiropractic but rather) society's tolerance of disproven theory, unsubstantiated claims and unethical professions."

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Sep 8, 2011 at 8:31am QuotePost Options Post by qmagnumq on Sep 8, 2011 at 8:31am
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Sep 7, 2011 at 10:33pm mapjtx said:

i asked my chiropractor about maximized living and he gave me the "those people are intense" look. sure he appreciates the amount of money they make, but to elude to people that medicine is bad and that the right "healing hands" can cure all ailments including cancer and heart disease is preposterous.



Mapjtx, keep reading in the forum; specifically this thread early on and you will see you are not alone. I have been going through the nightmare that is Maximized Living with my wife being sucked in. She was so fed up with the medical system that anything would have been preferable to her. Well, along comes the miracle that is Maximized Living. Smiley
They say all the right things in their attempt to get you to sign with them. I would like to think your brother-in-law would tell them where to go with their 92 sessions as there is nothing wrong with him....however, there was nothing wrong with my two children and the ML doc convinced my wife that they needed to be adjusted each week to ensure they stay healthy. It is truly sad what people will do for money.
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Sep 8, 2011 at 9:39am QuotePost Options Post by Copernicus DC on Sep 8, 2011 at 9:39am
qmag,

I recently read an article about factory outlet stores that applied to chiropractors and lifetime maintenance care. It said that the reason stores are located far from populated areas is so that people rationalize that since they invested so much effort getting there they should buy something to recover the effort. Likewise, once someone has gone through weeks of chiropractic treatment they probably would be fearful to lose the money, time and effort already spent if the chiropractor threatened them after they suggested leaving or stopped visits.
"The real problem (isn't chiropractic but rather) society's tolerance of disproven theory, unsubstantiated claims and unethical professions."

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Sep 8, 2011 at 8:42pm QuotePost Options Post by qmagnumq on Sep 8, 2011 at 8:42pm
Sadly, that is a very good analogy Allen.
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"The real problem (isn't chiropractic but rather) society's tolerance of disproven theory, unsubstantiated claims and unethical professions." -A J Botnick DC

"There's a sucker born every minute" -PT Barnum

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[ Guest ]Cranky Curmudgeon
Post Icon Posted: Jun 16th, 2015 at 08:04 am Quote Post

I recently attended a health expo where a Maximized Living group was giving free nerve assessments to see if you had a blockage in your nerves. I got to talking to one of the people there, and after filling out my information on a form, she signed me up for an appointment (with a $40 pre-pay), but she forgot to do the nerve assessment. When I went in for the initial consultation with the chiropractor, The first thing he said when he entered the office was, "I know you've had the nerve scan, and there was some blockage there, and we're going to clear that up for you." Pardon me? No, I did not have the scan. That was when the first red flag went up.

But I stayed and discussed the spine problems I knew I had, and let them take the x-rays. Why not, I had already paid for the visit. Upon my second visit, I was told the results of my x-rays, but was not shown them. I've been to three previous chiropractors, and was always shown my x-rays. That was red flag number two. Then I was taken out to the main floor and shown how to use some "neck warm-up device", which did nothing but choke me. Told to do spinal warmups on some sort of strange cushions - those just made me motion sick. Then I went back for my adjustment. I am not a fan of gadgets in chiropractics, so the hammers (or whatever was used) on my spine and neck made me uncomfortable. Plus I get very wary of my neck being adjusted, as I've heard too many horror stories about quacks paralyzing people doing just that. I did hear a pop in my neck, and I did have a slight bit more range of motion to one side when turning my neck after that. But then I was made to put on a heavy head weight and told to march in place. This seems counter intuitive to the concept of lifting the neck. And why the marching in placeSmiley It seemed to me that everyone was getting the same treatment, but we were all there for different spinal problems. That made no logical sense.

When I walked out of there, I felt sick to my stomach, literally. I did not notice a difference in my back at all. Other than the slight increase on range of motion to one side for my neck, everything else actually felt a little worse, if any change at all.

I've had a great chiropractor. Very old school. He didn't use fancy gadgets. He placed a warm compress on my back, and simply adjusted me on the side I was out. He didn't try to squeeze my insurance dry... he didn't even charge my insurance. I only paid $35 a visit. And he didn't try to sell me on a whole repeat visit program. He told me to come back when I was out. When I left his office, I could feel the difference. I was pain free, and walking straight... with ONE adjustment. Unfortunately, he retired, and every other Chiropractor I have seen since has put me on roller tables, of those electro-shock things, and this ridiculous ML gadgetry (which made me look and feel like an idiot). I know chiropractics work, when done right, and honestly. Unfortunately, a lot of quacks and greedy or improperly trained people give it bad name. Just use your common sense to determine if what they are saying sounds logical, and if you feel any better or not after the adjustment. If the answer is no, don't go back.

I will NOT be returning for my ML "group" session.
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Post Icon Posted: Jun 16th, 2015 at 01:32 pm Quote Post

It appears that you are an educated consumer. The only thing I would add at this point is that perhaps when you shop around for chiropractors you should tell them what you are looking for. That way you don't waste your time or money, and they don't waste their time. Just say something like, " I am looking to pay about $40 cash per visit for Diversified(a common chiropractic technique that doesn't involve instruments) adjustments to my spine. I am not looking to have diagnostic X-Rays or any other methods of treatment. I also only want spinal manipulations for pain relief and will discontinue care when I feel better." Some chiropractors will say they are not interested in this arrangement, but many others will by happy to oblige. The Joint franchise might be a good fit for someone with your needs, but they are not in all areas.

« Last Edited by FAIRCHIRO Jun 16th, 2015 at 02:03 pm »
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[ Guest ]CJF
Post Icon Posted: Aug 6th, 2015 at 01:29 pm Quote Post

wow.....I just completed two visits at ML and "then" I did research. I knew I felt something Odd being there. I have lower back pain ( sciatica) that I thought could be helped by some kind of spinal manipulation to take the bone off the joint. I still want to seek a good ,fair, honest chiro to possible help me. Maybe I should just give it "time" to heal....Not sure...

anyway....thanks to all the comments on this page. I cancelled by "group" seminar tonite and I do not think I will go back.

Any recommendations of known chiro's in the winston salem area, Please note on here..Thxs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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[ Guest ]Xan
Post Icon Posted: May 24th, 2016 at 10:25 pm Quote Post

I too visited twice. I was disappointed when they asked for my spouse to attend. It felt like they were saying as a woman I cannot handle this decision without my husband. I started reading. The third visit is a group visit? That is terrible. I have no interest. I only wanted to meet a good DC, one comfortable with joints outside the spine. I believe in vaccines. I believe in "western medicine". I am so disappointed.
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Post Icon Posted: May 25th, 2016 at 07:45 pm Quote Post

It seems pretty obvious that, overall, vaccines have been a great boon to mankind. What is scary is that it is often the educated more affluent families that are eschewing vaccines. Like chiropractors, these anti-vaccine people are unable to differentiate science from pseudoscience and are endangering society. Also, like chiropractors, they are susceptible to highly implausible conspiracy theories of the medical establishment teaming up with the pharmacy industry. I, however, don't believe that there is a lot of money to made by medical doctors from administering these vaccines and they wouldn't be giving them to children if they didn't believe that the benefits outweigh the risks.

« Last Edited by FAIRCHIRO May 26th, 2016 at 09:14 am »
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[ Guest ]Jonathan
Post Icon Posted: Oct 21st, 2016 at 11:43 am Quote Post

I'm a new patient who has had chronic back pain for years. Their chiropractic care and therapy work. Before the chiropractic treatment,it was doctor after doctor and pill after pill and physical therapy.

I'm investigating the claims of cancer free living, as well as their nutritional claims. I understand they come off as sales hungry but that is what successful businesses do. It's a fair alternative for people who've been unsuccessful getting different treatment styles.
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Post Icon Posted: Oct 22nd, 2016 at 05:15 pm Quote Post

Without more specifics, I can't really respond. Besides treatments for your back pain, what are they trying to sell you?
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